“On the criteria put forward by the new moral guardians of our society, there is no logical reason why incest and polygamy should not be permitted. “Perhaps we in the Church have to wake-up and properly explain to our society that we have a God of order and beauty who has set up clear parameters for the gift of sex within marriage.”
For the past few years we have been warning that if the society rejects the Bible’s teaching about sex, sexuality and humanity, then SSM would not be the only brick to be taken out of the wall. I believe that in order the next to fall will be the taboos and laws against polygamy, incest and pedophilia. And so bit by bit it is happening. In these past few days I have read about the British welfare state subsidising polygamy, a conference in Cambridge declaring that pedophilia is ‘natural’ and of course the incest petition going before the Scottish parliament.
I released the statement below through the Free Church and it was picked up by a couple of newspaper and STV. I knew that it would be met with a storm of abuse and disgust – and it was. There were some comments that are too vile to be published (and yet the National felt free to leave them on their comments page) – suggesting amongst other things that I was both a product of and an exponent of incest.
But leave aside all the comments about insanity and the outrage from secularists there was something else very revealing that happened (and that proved my point). Logically what I am saying is correct – most people don’t want to go the logical route and so just resort to abuse. But others are prepared to do that – and rather than give up their original arguments, when they see the consequences, they are prepared to accept the consequences. For example a Mr Ron Murphy from Langley High School states:
“He’s nearly right. There are good evolutionary reasons why incest is generally harmful for offspring, and that might have resulted in a general distaste for the practice. However, the only reasons to now reject incestual sex among consenting adults is a cultural history of morality – which itself may have become dominant because of the biological causes.
Similarly, homosexuality is not reproductively beneficial to a species, but in small numbers is harmless. We have come to accept the biological variation of homosexuality, but not yet incest. In both cases the error is in making a moral proscription out of old biological influences without good reason. Some biologically driven behaviours, like rage and killing, are worth resisting. Making a moral proscription against killing but not against homosexuality or incest are consistent with secular humanism.He’s wrong in that it’s not a necessary consequence of secularism, but of science and philosophy challenging historical moral proscriptions.”
And then one of the leading Secular Scotland figures stated honestly (ironically after lots of his fellow supporters had just posted about what an insane ‘mental midget’ I was for suggesting that the secularist logic would lead to incest) ” I’m still trying to work out what is wrong with incest between consenting adults” and another added “Apart from making the majority of people cringe at the thought of sexual intercourse with a family member, I don’t believe it to be immoral between consenting adults.” It is the logic of their position. A few more years of media programming and the yeuch factor will have been removed and we will have the secularists campaigning on the basis of ‘equality’ and ‘equal marriage’ in favour of consenting adult incest. Speaking of the media, it was helpfully pointed out that there are other examples of the media being used to ‘normalise’ incest, with one of the most prominent being Game of Thrones. These are sad and desperate days- we have sown the wind and we are reaping the whirlwind.
Statement on the Free Church website
The retreat from Christian morality means that petitions, like today’s one attempting to legalise incest, being discussed by the Scottish Parliament are inevitable, the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland has said.
Rev David Robertson made the remarks before Holyrood’s Public Petitions Committee rejected a proposal on adult consensual incest for over-21s.
He argued that secularist humanist thinking; that adults should be free to do whatever they like with their own bodies so long as third parties are not harmed, would simply not stand up to the problem. Speaking ahead of this morning’s session, Rev David Robertson said: “Unless MSPs are prepared to adopt Christian morality, they are effectively defenceless in arguing against incest.
“Secularist humanist thinking reduces sexual relations to a matter of consent – I am frequently told that so long as two people are happy to be involved, there is not a problem. “But it’s when we consider the Bible that we clearly see that the legalisation of incest would be an unmitigated disaster.
“Incest may be the last great taboo and people will understandably react with revulsion and disgust, but given the criteria of human autonomy that many seem to be adopting, there is no logical reason for incest not to become acceptable.”
The Free Church Moderator continued: “Given that the changes in legislation tend to be preceded by media propaganda normalising what was once considered unthinkable, I find it somewhat disturbing that the current BBC series of War and Peace portrays an explicit incestuous relationship, something which is not in the book, as though it were normal.
“Whilst it is currently ‘unthinkable’ and I am sure that MSPs will throw this petition out, this is just the first drop in what will be a drip, drip campaign by those who do not regard incest as unthinkable. “Who is to say that within a few years the pressure will not grow and in the name of ‘equality’, incest between adults will be permitted?
“Those who argue that consenting adults have the right to do whatever they want, have no real argument, other than instinctive revulsion, against incest. “Having rejected the basic Christian view of morality what is to stop our society moving even further away from its foundations?
“On the criteria put forward by the new moral guardians of our society, there is no logical reason why incest and polygamy should not be permitted. “Perhaps we in the Church have to wake-up and properly explain to our society that we have a God of order and beauty who has set up clear parameters for the gift of sex within marriage.
“The Maker of the family really does know what is best for the family.”
No appeared in person to present the petition – which was only lodged last week – at today’s meeting of the Public Petitions Committee in Edinburgh.
There was very little discussion from MSPs and the committee agreed to close the petition, meaning it has been rejected.
MSPs to debate bid to legalise incest between consenting adults
STV News 26 Jan 2016
A bid to change incest laws so they no longer apply to consenting adults over the age of 21 is to be considered by MSPs. In a petition to the Scottish Parliament’s Public Petitions Committee, Richard Morris argued that the current law needs reform. The campaigner also wants people who have been convicted under those circumstances to have their sentences reconsidered and potentially quashed. He claims the legislation at the moment “does unnecessarily and unfairly punish consensual adult incest, breaching the rights to sexual autonomy for all consenting adults that is accepted in other more developed countries”.
In a submission to MSPs he stressed that adult consensual incest does not involve anyone under the age of 21, and added: “Therefore it involves only adults and excludes anyone under the legal age of consent, and even those a bit older who still may be psychologically immature, and vulnerable to abuse, but legally adults in every respect. “Children are protected from sexual and other abuse by other laws, and there is no need for the double criminalisation of the offence.”
Free Kirk Moderator, the Reverend David Robertson, said: “Whilst it is currently ‘unthinkable’ and I am sure that MSPs will throw this petition out, this is just the first drop in what will be a drip, drip campaign by those who do not regard incest as unthinkable.”
Committee convener Michael McMahon said: “I recognise the petition addresses a subject matter that many people find abhorrent. Speaking personally, I take a similar view.
“However, all petitions that fall within the committee’s rules must be given our open and transparent consideration. It will be for the committee to decide if there can be any public interest in continuing this petition when we meet on Tuesday, January 26.”
Legal incest is ‘a logical result of secularism’, says Free Church of Scotland
The National 26 Jan 2016
SCOTTISH secularism means that legalising incest is only “logical”, according to the Free Church of Scotland. Speaking ahead of a discussion on incest laws by the Scottish Parliament’s petition committee, the Church’s moderator said the lack of “Christian morality” among lawmakers was to blame for Scotland being in a place where incest was no longer “unthinkable”.
The Rev David Robertson said: “Unless MSPs are prepared to adopt Christian morality, they are effectively defenceless in arguing against incest.” He continued: “Secularist humanist thinking reduces sexual relations to a matter of consent – I am frequently told that so long as two people are happy to be involved, there is not a problem.
“But it’s when we consider the Bible that we clearly see that the legalisation of incest would be an unmitigated disaster.”Robertson blamed the BBC’s dramatisation of War and Peace, which features an incestuous relationship, as “media propaganda.” He said: “Whilst it is currently ‘unthinkable’ and I am sure that MSPs will throw this petition out, this is just the first drop in what will be a drip, drip campaign by those who do not regard incest as unthinkable.
“Who is to say that within a few years the pressure will not grow and in the name of ‘equality’, incest between adults will be permitted?”
MSPs on Holyrood’s petitions committee have already indicated their opposition to the proposal, with committee convener Michael McMahon calling the subject matter “abhorrent”.MSPs will decidetodaywhether there is any further action to take.
Richard Morris, who lodged the petition, reportedly lives in Australia and will not be appearing in front of the committee. In his petition, Morris says the law, “perpetuates superstitious, bigoted, outmoded beliefs.”
David Robertson is the Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland. He’s also the minister of St Peter’s Free Church in Dundee and director of Solas the Centre for Public Christianity. This article appeared on his blog and is used with permission.