When asked again by his own attorney if the Crystal Cathedral had permission to sell his material on the Internet, Schuller said: “I need to discuss that with the Lord.”  Schuller had trouble remembering answers to other questions, including statements he had made in a court declaration and a sworn deposition.

The Schuller claims

Robert H. Schuller, housing allowance and breach of contract $55,226+

Robert H. Schuller, contract rejection damages $5,059,909

Robert H. and Arvella Schuller, claims for copyright infringement Unknown amounts

Robert Harold Inc., contractual payments due $223,078.09

Carol Schuller Milner, housing allowance, $10,615

Carol Schuller Milner, breach of oral employment contract $83,608.92

Timothy Milner, various claims, $178,313

Source: Schullers’ amended trial brief filed Oct. 23, 2012

The Rev. Robert H. Schuller, once the head of a popular and prosperous megachurch, found himself in a courtroom Wednesday, unable to answer some of the questions attorneys lobbed at him.

Schuller testified in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the first time Wednesday on his claim that the Crystal Cathedral Ministries owes him millions of dollars.

At times, the 86-year-old appeared confused. Asked to confirm statements he made previously, he sometimes said he did not know or did not recall.

When asked by opposing counsel if he were still on the Crystal Cathedral Ministries board of directors, he said “yes.” And asked if he were still the chairman, his response was: “I believe I am.”

Schuller is neither on the board nor the chairman. He and his wife, Arvella, cut their ties to the Crystal Cathedral this year.

At other times, he came across as the charismatic leader he’s been for decades.

“Proceed,” he commanded to attorneys on a couple of occasions. At one point, while describing his creative process, he gave Judge Robert Kwan advice to try his approach. At another point, he admonished attorneys that he could not answer a question because it was too long and contained “too many variables.”

Throughout his nearly two hours of testimony, Schuller was firm on one idea: He had always allowed the Crystal Cathedral to use his books and other works without receiving royalties, but the work was his nonetheless – and not property of the ministry.

“We never had anything in writing. We just had an understanding,” Schuller said – “a gentleman’s understanding.”

As long as the ministry did not sell his materials to competitors, it could use them for the profit of the cathedral. One of the most common uses was the church’s giveaway of books to donors to the Hour of Power television program.

Schuller did not receive royalties for the books, sharing all the profits with the church, he said.

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